tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22093933.post3076770893520009817..comments2024-03-28T09:41:15.454-05:00Comments on Deric's MindBlog: Consciousness - correlation is not a causeDeric Bowndshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16617204535017208765noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22093933.post-76993775305461016962011-07-01T16:49:22.245-05:002011-07-01T16:49:22.245-05:00"our conscious experiences simply are what is..."our conscious experiences simply are what is going on inside our brains." I reckon it's our cells too. http://irmaladouce.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/take-it-to-the-cellular-level/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22093933.post-26792207136252934502011-06-30T23:10:16.764-05:002011-06-30T23:10:16.764-05:00One interesting (off topic) thing about CINAC thin...One interesting (off topic) thing about CINAC thinking is that it breaks down in basic physics. We think of causation with an implicit forwards time direction, for example, we wouldn't say that eating a cake tomorrow can't cause it to be baked yesterday.<br /><br />However, this asymmetry of time doesn't apply at the particle level where interactions are symmetric in time. An electron accelerates sideways when it absorbs a photon; later it might emit a photon and accelerates the other way, just like rolling the film backwards. When we speak of cause and effect and assume that time runs only one way but at the micro level since interactions are symmetric, causality itself becomes hard to pin down. <br /><br />At the macro level things don't work like that: shattered vases don't unshatter. Heat always flows from hot to cold. Even though many individual particle collisions will transfer energy against the gradient, the net effect over zillions of of interactions is for heat - molecular kinetic energy - to always flow down the gradient.<br /><br />Some physicist have looked to the micro level symmetry for an explanation of entanglement ("spooky action at a distance") where two particles interact then move apart with some indeterminate properties. When a property is measured on one particle a corresponding property is instantaneously changed on the other particle even though the particles may have moved a long way apart, ie, without any possiblity of normal information exchange. A mooted explanation is for the "cause" to propagate backwards in time from the measured particle to the original interaction then forwards to the second particle. This contradict our intuitions of causes occurring before their effect but this may be ok since our idea of cause and effect is generated in our macro stucture, based on the intuitions gained from in the macro world where time "flows", and only one way.Jim Birchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07415199338332642534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22093933.post-42473197385220398822011-06-30T12:00:28.641-05:002011-06-30T12:00:28.641-05:00Yes, Sue is right - we have to get out of the delu...Yes, Sue is right - we have to get out of the delusions about our mind. Quoting: "Once we clear away some of our delusions about the nature of our own minds, we may finally see why there is no deep mystery and our conscious experiences simply are what is going on inside our brains." <br /><br />I do not know why in the world we give so much importance to a "mind." Why cannot we think of it as another organ, a part of the body-organism, as much as a stomach or heart is? All these body parts (including a mind as activity of brain) are there to protect and perpetuate the species. Some ancient philosophers even thought of mysterious mental worlds and mental bodies and mind-stuff with which minds are made! We know very well now that all of those things a mind is supposed to be is seen as em-chem changes in the brain.<br /><br />The next important point is not a question about which causes which but whether we do find a foot-print of consciousness in the activity of neuronal other cells of the brain.Ramesam Vemurihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670447320400400816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22093933.post-69501173735404777152011-06-30T05:57:33.638-05:002011-06-30T05:57:33.638-05:00If we have no inkling about what the solution coul...If we have no inkling about what the solution could be, what inclines you to have that guess?<br /><br />Actually confronting phenomenal experience to brain states leads to a very different guess, I guess.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22093933.post-42227575895041627842011-06-30T04:47:47.547-05:002011-06-30T04:47:47.547-05:00Susan *Blackmore*Susan *Blackmore*Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com